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    Scam taking advantage of loopholes in Paypal

    Hi folks,

    I'm pretty good at spotting and avoiding Internet scams, but I got hooked by one recently, and I'm still trying to get it resolved. I thought I'd pass the story along, as a cautionary tale for others, and also in hopes that someone here can help. These people have figured out a pretty clever way to take advantage of loopholes in Paypal's dispute process.

    Some weeks ago, I saw an ad on Facebook for a camping stove, on sale for about $40. I ordered it, paying with Paypal since that was the only option offered on the checkout page. A few weeks went by, but I didn't worry since it was the busy season, and I think the stove was coming from China. But the payment receipt showed the name of a window-repair company in the UK. Warning sign #1 ...

    Eventually a package arrived with a return address of a P.O. box in California. Inside was a cheap string of plastic beads, and a card that said that the beads were a free gift, and the item I ordered would be along soon. But when I went on-line to check the status of the stove order, it had changed to "Delivered."

    At that point I started to be concerned. I did a Google search on the P.O. box address, and found a number of complaints from people who had been scammed, and were having trouble getting refunds from Paypal. So I immedately went to Paypal's Resolution Center page. I wrote a detailed explanation, and I uploaded photos of the beads, the envelope, and the card saying that the beads were a gift. I mentioned that if they Google'd the P.O. box address, they would find other complaints.

    The seller offered me a partial refund (through Paypal), and I declined it. Today Paypal notified me that the seller has agreed to a full refund, but I have to return the item; and the address for the return is in the UK, not California. Sending a package to the UK is more expensive than sending it to California. And of course, even if I return the beads, the seller might find other ways to delay or deny the refund.

    I wrote to Paypal again, including most of the details from my previous messages, and re-uploading the photos. I'm wondering if any human being has looked at my case yet, or is it all being handled by their server? Maybe this time they will realize what's going on and get me my full refund; we'll see.

    I suppose that from Paypal's point of view, it's hard to tell what happened. The seller does have proof that something was delivered to me. I know that there are crooked customers out there, who will buy an item and then claim that they never received it; this seller has arranged for my case to look like one of those. And the refund process has enough steps in it that a lot of victims will probably not go through with all of it.

    Obviously, for a $45 purchase, I'm not going to lose a lot of sleep over it. But I hate to let those criminals get away with ripping me off, not to mention all the other people who may have been, or will be, caught in the same trap. Paypal needs to be made aware of what's going on.

    I'm an engineer, not a merchant; I don't use Paypal very often. If any of you have advice on something else I can do, or if you know a real person inside Paypal who can take a look at this, I'd appreciate it very much.

    Kent Multer
    Magic Metal Productions
    http://TheMagicM.com
    * Web developer/designer
    * E-commerce and Miva
    * Author, The Official Miva Web Scripting Book -- available on-line:
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/IS...icmetalproducA

    #2
    First, I'm sorry that you got taken advantage of. My spidey senses seem to tingle with every Facebook ad I see. My husband saw a cute t-shirt he wanted to get me and the first thing I asked was where did he see it at? When he said Facebook, I said no. I've read reports (which you are probably too aware of now) that Facebook has been flooded with spammy/bogus ads. I feel bad for legit small businesses who want to try using Facebook ads but I tell them don't.
    Leslie Kirk
    Miva Certified Developer
    Miva Merchant Specialist since 1997
    Previously of Webs Your Way
    (aka Leslie Nord leslienord)

    Email me: [email protected]
    www.lesliekirk.com

    Follow me: Twitter | Facebook | FourSquare | Pinterest | Flickr

    Comment


      #3
      I did do a bit of research before I hit the Buy button When I see something interesting on Facebook, I first do some Web searches to learn more about it. Often it turns out that the same item is available from other dealers at a lower price; people selling on Facebook use a higher mark-up and take advantage of impulse purchases. In this case, I found a few other dealers selling the same stove at about the same price. Maybe they were all phony stores set up by the same scammer, or a bunch of copycat scammers.
      Kent Multer
      Magic Metal Productions
      http://TheMagicM.com
      * Web developer/designer
      * E-commerce and Miva
      * Author, The Official Miva Web Scripting Book -- available on-line:
      http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/IS...icmetalproducA

      Comment


        #4
        The same thing has happened to me. But they want me to send the item back to China. I ended up eating it as the PayPal Policy it to ship it to what PayPal has as their address and not the Kentucky address the item was sent from.
        Thank You,

        Nerd Boy

        http://www.nerdboyinc.com

        1-855-Nerd-Boy

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Nerd Boy Inc View Post
          The same thing has happened to me. But they want me to send the item back to China. I ended up eating it as the PayPal Policy it to ship it to what PayPal has as their address and not the Kentucky address the item was sent from.
          Did you report it to Paypal? These scammers have figured out a clever way to rip people off and take advantage of difficulties in Paypal's resolution system. If enough victims report the problem, eventually someone at Paypal will take notice.

          Also, I'm hoping that someone in Miva managements may have a contact at Paypal, and could let them know about the problem. Paypal's resolution system seems to be mostly automated. I've been to the Resolution Center several times already, but I don't see any evidence that a human being has read any of my detailed messages, or looked at any of the evidence I gave them (photos, links, etc.).
          Kent Multer
          Magic Metal Productions
          http://TheMagicM.com
          * Web developer/designer
          * E-commerce and Miva
          * Author, The Official Miva Web Scripting Book -- available on-line:
          http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/IS...icmetalproducA

          Comment


            #6
            Some good news: Paypal is giving me a full refund!

            I think their Resolution Center is completely automated. The messages and photos that I sent were only seen by the seller, not by any human being at Paypal. My case was eventually denied by the Res Center, but then I found another Contact page and started over.

            This page was also automated, but it eventually led me to an "other comments" box where I could tell the whole story, and include the ID number from the case. That got the attention of a very nice human being, who reviewed everything and escalated the case to a higher level, where some other human being decided in my favor. I had to re-upload the photos; apparently the person handling the case was not allowed to view messages or photos in the Res Center.

            Hope this information is useful to some of you. And, merchants, you might want to take a close look at your own dispute-resolution policies, and make sure there are no loopholes that a malicious seller can take advantage of.

            Happy New Year y'all!
            Kent Multer
            Magic Metal Productions
            http://TheMagicM.com
            * Web developer/designer
            * E-commerce and Miva
            * Author, The Official Miva Web Scripting Book -- available on-line:
            http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/IS...icmetalproducA

            Comment


              #7
              Awesome!!!
              Leslie Kirk
              Miva Certified Developer
              Miva Merchant Specialist since 1997
              Previously of Webs Your Way
              (aka Leslie Nord leslienord)

              Email me: [email protected]
              www.lesliekirk.com

              Follow me: Twitter | Facebook | FourSquare | Pinterest | Flickr

              Comment

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