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    #61
    MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI



    I wholeheartedly agree (and Dan, just FYI , the majority of my "rants"
    are not necessarily directed at solely the original poster - hope you
    don't think I was trying to slap you around).

    However, there's a WAY to discuss things. I've seen a lot of posts get
    out of hand and run into crazy, heated debates (I could actually hear
    people screaming, donning red faces), rather than just having a
    "conversation."

    > However, if your silence or dissent is based simply on not
    > wanting to bite the hand that feeds you then that just shows
    > a lack of any moral fiber and is certainly not something to
    > be encouraged or to be proud of.

    I'm not encouraging people to shut up at all. But I would say that if
    you worked for Trump and had a problem, there's a way to present that.
    Some things SHOULD be presented off list, and somethings should be
    presented with an open mind. Spewing the first thing that comes out of
    one's head usually winds up biting them back. I've been there myself a
    million times. Either way people decide what to post on, it's always
    nice to take a few minutes before hitting that send button.

    Pamela
    Real Solutions for Miva Merchant
    The Official Guide to Miva Merchant
    <A HREF ="http://www.designextend.com/DE">http://www.designextend.com/DE</A>

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: [email protected]
    > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of mivalist
    > Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 4:32 PM
    > To: [email protected]
    > Subject: RE: [mru] MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI
    >
    >
    > In addition to everyone having a "right" to comment when they
    > feel Miva (or anyone else) has done something that has a
    > negative impact, I believe they actually have a
    > "responsibility" to do so. Nothing ever gets changed by
    > remaining silent. Only by standing up for yourself will your
    > opinion ever be heard and that opinion may influence Miva.
    > There's no guarantee that it will but you can bet it won't if
    > you say nothing.
    >
    > If you remain silent because you feel that there's been no
    > wrong then that's just fine. If you speak out against those
    > who claim there has been a wrong because you disagree then
    > that's even better. That's what leads to a real discussion of
    > the issue.
    >
    > However, if your silence or dissent is based simply on not
    > wanting to bite the hand that feeds you then that just shows
    > a lack of any moral fiber and is certainly not something to
    > be encouraged or to be proud of.
    >
    > Dan
    > Impulse Creations
    >
    > For low priced back issue comics and the very best in service
    > visit us at www.impulsecreations.net and be sure to look for
    > information on our discounted subscription service with free
    > bags and free shipping!
    >
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: [email protected]
    > [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of
    > Chuck Lasker - DoublePlus
    > Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 3:13 PM
    > To: [email protected]
    > Subject: RE: [mru] MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI
    >
    > Pamela said:
    >
    > > It's sad to hear the continuous comments about how bad Miva Corp is
    > > itself. It seems that any time something negative is
    > posted, it turns
    > > into a loop of insults to the company that, in one way or another,
    > > helps us ALL make money (or for those new businesses, make
    > a presence
    > > on the web). I personally would never keep a business relationship
    > > with someone
    > > or some company I had no respect for.
    >
    > Just because we make money supporting Miva Merchant owners,
    > doesn't mean Miva is helping us make money, any more than
    > Microsoft is helping technicians who charge for supporting
    > Windows make money. Unless, of course, you mean that by
    > creating a less-than-perfect product, Miva is helping people
    > like us make more money supporting it when it needs
    > modifications to do what the customer wants. I guess, in that
    > way, Miva is helping me.
    >
    > I think it's important to understand that criticizing a
    > company's decisions is not a horrific act. I don't think
    > stating that I think something was done incorrectly, in my
    > opinion, leads directly to severing all ties with the
    > company. It's not so black and white.
    >
    > If I only kept business relationships with companies I felt
    > were perfect, I'd have no business relationships at all. Of
    > course, what constitutes a business relationship in this
    > context? Using the product? I don't think so. A business
    > relationship is mutually supportive in some way, which I
    > don't see happening here. If I buy Shell gas, that doesn't
    > mean I have a relationship with Shell, nor that I respect
    > them. It just means I bought gas from them, and doesn't mean
    > I shouldn't criticize them from that point forward.
    >
    > Chuck
    >
    >

    Comment


      #62
      MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI





      Darren Ehlers
      OpenUI Consortium
      <A HREF ="http://www.openui.org/">http://www.openui.org/</A>



      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: [email protected]
      > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
      > Media Services Int'l, Inc.
      > Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 2:45 PM
      > To: 'mivalist'; 'Jonathan - Driftwood';
      > [email protected]gr.miva.com
      > Subject: RE: [mru] MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI
      >
      > I personally would never keep a business relationship
      > with someone or some company I had no respect for.

      There-in lies one of the primary reasons there will not be an OpenUI, and I
      will not develop any products for Miva Merchant 5.

      Darren Ehlers
      OpenUI Consortium
      <A HREF ="http://www.openui.org/">http://www.openui.org/</A>

      > Pamela
      > Real Solutions for Miva Merchant
      > The Official Guide to Miva Merchant
      > <A HREF ="http://www.designextend.com/DE">http://www.designextend.com/DE</A>
      >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: [email protected]
      > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of mivalist
      > > Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 2:42 PM
      > > To: Jonathan - Driftwood; [email protected]
      > > Subject: RE: [mru] MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI
      > >
      > >
      > > I'm well aware that Miva and its partners have benefited from
      > > OUI (although Miva won't acknowledge that like the partners
      > > will). I never suggested that wasn't the case.
      > >
      > > However, those responsible for how MM5 was developed wanted
      > > it such that what had been provided by OUI was no longer
      > > needed and was instead incorporated into the core product.
      > > That's understandable. Miva doesn't want to rely on OUI to
      > > make its product competitive with other carts. Other
      > > developers don't want to have to code around both Merchant
      > > and OUI to make their products work. It's all logical and I'm
      > > not going to debate whether it's a good decision or a bad one.
      > >
      > > I've personally heard from several developers who have stated
      > > this to be the case so I know it's true. Regardless of the
      > > motivations, people wanted a Merchant cart that didn't
      > > require OUI to make adding new functionality easy.
      > >
      > > I'm not judging that decision here; just saying that with
      > > that in mind there's no logical reason for Miva to update the
      > > VM just so that it works with OUI. There's no incentive for
      > > that to happen other than to please end users which isn't a
      > > reason at all in Miva's eyes.
      > >
      > > Dan
      > > Impulse Creations
      > >
      > > For low priced back issue comics and the very best in service
      > > visit us at www.impulsecreations.net and be sure to look for
      > > information on our discounted subscription service with free
      > > bags and free shipping!
      > >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > From: Jonathan - Driftwood [mailto:[email protected]]
      > > Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 11:59 AM
      > > To: mivalist; [email protected]
      > > Subject: RE: [mru] MivaVM 5.02 and OpenUI
      > >
      > > No personal offense is intended Dan -- but you are blaming
      > the victim.
      > >
      > > I am sorry, but saying "most ... partners want Darren and OUI
      > > gone." is completely wrong, woefully misleading to those
      > > without experience in the history of this application, and
      > > simply unfair at its base.
      > >
      > > The reality is that almost -all- Partners have directly
      > > benefited from the Darren Ehlers and his exhaustive work on
      > > the OpenUI. The overall contribution made by Darren to the
      > > Miva Merchant community is inestimatable. I can count on one
      > > hand the number of new features added to Miva Merchant in the
      > > almost 10 years -- which were not first designed by Darren,
      > > coded by Darren, and implemented by Darren; before being
      > > subsumed by Miva Corp and included into their products. Zero
      > > acknowledgement was given as to the features' true creator,
      > > nor support, nor even a passing "thank you". It started with
      > > his (and others of extreme talent) work via the company
      > > 'Starbase21' and continued until the day that Darren had
      > > enough. That he tolerated being treated like an unwelcome
      > > cousin all those years was testament to his professionalism
      > > and maturity; no matter what sour grapes a small minority
      > > attempted to create.
      > >
      > > The thousands of Miva Merchant stores which were enabled by
      > > the OpenUI is testament to its quality and value. There was
      > > NOTHING preventing any developer from writing their modules
      > > or Miva Merchant add-ons to be fully compliant with the Miva
      > > Merchant API; so much as it was/is. Many more of them
      > > tangibly benefitted from his work.
      > >
      > > To say that Miva Corp Partners wanted Darren 'out of the
      > > picture' is simply incorrect and misleading.
      > >
      > > Jonathan
      > > Driftwood Network Services
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > At 11:23 AM 5/19/2005, mivalist wrote:
      > > >2. Without getting into whether or not actions on either side are
      > > justified,
      > > >Miva and most (or at least the most vocal) partners want
      > > Darren and OUI
      > > >gone. Between that and Miva's continued policy of ignoring
      > end-users
      > > there's
      > > >no reason to believe that Miva will ever make a downwards
      > compatible
      > > version
      > > >of the VM just so that older stores can continue to use
      > OUI. They'll
      > > >only release a new version that has that effect if it turns
      > > out to be
      > > >needed to fix other issues as well. I seriously doubt that
      > they made
      > > >this change simply to encourage people to drop OUI and upgrade to
      > > >Merchant 5 but having that effect is certainly a plus for
      > Miva which
      > > >again makes them disinclined to change it.
      > > >
      > > >Dan
      > > >Impulse Creations
      > >
      > >
      > > --
      > > No virus found in this incoming message.
      > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
      > > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.13 - Release Date: 5/19/05
      > >
      > > --
      > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
      > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
      > > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.13 - Release Date: 5/19/05
      > >
      > >
      > >

      Comment

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