Open source and Miva Was: Re: encode base64

Open source and Miva



Mikl=F3s said: "All in all, open source works only with a large
pool of developers and only if there is a 'community feel' for
sharing. Neither is true for MivaScript. And I don't think
either of these conditions will ever change."

Well, one of those used to be true for Miva script. There used to
be a tremendous feeling of community among those that used the
language, but I fear that may not be true any more. And as for
the issue of size of developer pool, that is true, it is smaller
today than it was before.

I fear you are probably right Mikl=F3s, but I HOPE that it might
change. I think it sometimes doesn't take much to revitalize a
community, and maybe over the next year that can be done with
Miva script.

We'll see.

- Jeff Huber
President 4TheBest eCommerce Solutions
http://4TheBest.com
[email protected]
Office: 760-742-1469
Cell: 760-445-8454
=20

Open source and Miva



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"I think it sometimes doesn't take much to revitalize a community, and =
maybe over the next year that can be done with
Miva script."

Oh my... I guess everyone needs a dream! And now that FindWhat owns Miva =
corp, and is ONLY interested in the Merchant package, creating =
(revitalizing) a developers community will never happen.

Sincerely,
Greg Mazurek=20
=20
=20
www.A1HostCo.com
a better flavor in hosting
East Coast: 1.877.767.6932
West Coast: 1.866.629.9986 =20
=20
----- Original Message -----=20

From: Jeff Huber - Listmail=20
To: 'Jegenye 2001 Bt' ; 'Miva Users List'=20
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 9:15 PM
Subject: RE: [meu] Open source and Miva


Mikl=F3s said: "All in all, open source works only with a large
pool of developers and only if there is a 'community feel' for
sharing. Neither is true for MivaScript. And I don't think
either of these conditions will ever change."

Well, one of those used to be true for Miva script. There used to
be a tremendous feeling of community among those that used the
language, but I fear that may not be true any more. And as for
the issue of size of developer pool, that is true, it is smaller
today than it was before.

I fear you are probably right Mikl=F3s, but I HOPE that it might
change. I think it sometimes doesn't take much to revitalize a
community, and maybe over the next year that can be done with
Miva script.

We'll see.

- Jeff Huber
President 4TheBest eCommerce Solutions
http://4TheBest.com
[email protected]
Office: 760-742-1469
Cell: 760-445-8454
=20

Open source and Miva



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Greg,
=20
I like Miva script as a language. That fact that I do hold out
hope that it might grow as a language, and that I want to see it
improve, and want people to know the cool stuff about it, etc. is
one of the reason I am on this list.
=20
But if you are going to be such a gloomy gus about it all then
why are you even bothering with using Miva script? Why not go use
PHP or Perl, or ASP, or JSP, or something other than this
worthless doomed language?
=20
My bet is that even though you are being a sour puss, there are
still things you prefer about Miva script over other languages.
And that is one of the reasons it still has a chance to become
more widely used.
=20
I doubt it will never gain a PHP level of popularity, but it
could be much more popular than now and I would like that, and
think it is possible, and I think the fact that you still use it
is a sign of hope
=20
So cheer up and have a little bit of hope :)
=20
- Jeff Huber
President 4TheBest eCommerce Solutions
<http://4thebest.com/> http://4TheBest.com
<mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]
Office: 760-742-1469
Cell: 760-445-8454
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Greg
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 9:21 PM
To: Jeff Huber - Listmail; 'Jegenye 2001 Bt'; 'Miva Users List'
Subject: Re: [meu] Open source and Miva


"I think it sometimes doesn't take much to revitalize a
community, and maybe over the next year that can be done with
Miva script."
=20
Oh my... I guess everyone needs a dream! And now that FindWhat
owns Miva corp, and is ONLY interested in the Merchant package,
creating (revitalizing) a developers community will never happen.

Sincerely,
Greg Mazurek <<A HREF ="http://www.a1hostco.com/_images/blank.gif>=20">http://www.a1hostco.com/_images/blank.gif>=20</A>
<<A HREF ="http://www.a1hostco.com/_images/z-email.gif> =09">http://www.a1hostco.com/_images/z-email.gif> =09</A>
<<A HREF ="http://www.a1hostco.com/_images/blank.gif> =09">http://www.a1hostco.com/_images/blank.gif> =09</A>
<<A HREF ="http://www.A1HostCo.com> www.A1HostCo.com">http://www.A1HostCo.com> www.A1HostCo.com</A>
a better flavor in hosting
East Coast: 1.877.767.6932
West Coast: 1.866.629.9986 =09
=20

----- Original Message -----=20

From: Jeff Huber <mailto:[email protected]> - Listmail=20
To: 'Jegenye 2001 Bt' <mailto:[email protected]> ; 'Miva Users
<mailto:[email protected]> List'=20
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 9:15 PM
Subject: RE: [meu] Open source and Miva

Mikl=F3s said: "All in all, open source works only with a large
pool of developers and only if there is a 'community feel' for
sharing. Neither is true for MivaScript. And I don't think
either of these conditions will ever change."

Well, one of those used to be true for Miva script. There used to
be a tremendous feeling of community among those that used the
language, but I fear that may not be true any more. And as for
the issue of size of developer pool, that is true, it is smaller
today than it was before.

I fear you are probably right Mikl=F3s, but I HOPE that it might
change. I think it sometimes doesn't take much to revitalize a
community, and maybe over the next year that can be done with
Miva script.

We'll see.

- Jeff Huber
President 4TheBest eCommerce Solutions
http://4TheBest.com
[email protected]
Office: 760-742-1469
Cell: 760-445-8454
=20

Open source and Miva



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MessageSour puss? Gloomy Gus? Or maybe just being realistic?

You can wish that little green elves will visit during the night and =
build you nice little Miva community for you to join in your Open Source =
project. For me, I'll just be realistic... and wish you all the best in =
your endeavor, and even contribute in the Open Source project... as I =
have done MANY times in the past. I've been on this list for five years =
or more, and I've seen the slow death of Miva (the language) AND the =
community. Why would Miva attract ANY new developers when there is PHP, =
ASP, ColdFusion, Python... and so many more readily available languages =
where the "corporation" doesn't have their wallets in their way? (not =
that I blame them at all for that...)=20

As for the "worthless doomed language"... who said it was doomed? I said =
it is DEAD as far as attracting new developer blood. I love the rapid =
development time of Miva (3.9x), and I will probably ALWAYS use Miva as =
my primary Internet programming language. (3.9x, NOT compiled). And the =
fact that very few hosting companies support non-compiled Miva, I don't =
see a draw to the language for new developers. That has NEVER been the =
issue here... So call me gloomy, call me sour... at least I'm not =
waiting for the little green men to visit. :)

Sincerely,
Greg Mazurek=20
=20
=20
www.A1HostCo.com
a better flavor in hosting
East Coast: 1.877.767.6932
West Coast: 1.866.629.9986 =20
=20
----- Original Message -----=20

From: Jeff Huber - Listmail=20
To: 'Greg' ; 'Jegenye 2001 Bt' ; 'Miva Users List'=20
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 9:46 PM
Subject: RE: [meu] Open source and Miva


Greg,

I like Miva script as a language. That fact that I do hold out hope =
that it might grow as a language, and that I want to see it improve, and =
want people to know the cool stuff about it, etc. is one of the reason I =
am on this list.

But if you are going to be such a gloomy gus about it all then why are =
you even bothering with using Miva script? Why not go use PHP or Perl, =
or ASP, or JSP, or something other than this worthless doomed language?

My bet is that even though you are being a sour puss, there are still =
things you prefer about Miva script over other languages. And that is =
one of the reasons it still has a chance to become more widely used.

I doubt it will never gain a PHP level of popularity, but it could be =
much more popular than now and I would like that, and think it is =
possible, and I think the fact that you still use it is a sign of hope

So cheer up and have a little bit of hope :)

- Jeff Huber
President 4TheBest eCommerce Solutions
http://4TheBest.com
[email protected]
Office: 760-742-1469
Cell: 760-445-8454


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On =
Behalf Of Greg
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 9:21 PM
To: Jeff Huber - Listmail; 'Jegenye 2001 Bt'; 'Miva Users List'
Subject: Re: [meu] Open source and Miva


"I think it sometimes doesn't take much to revitalize a community, and =
maybe over the next year that can be done with
Miva script."

Oh my... I guess everyone needs a dream! And now that FindWhat owns =
Miva corp, and is ONLY interested in the Merchant package, creating =
(revitalizing) a developers community will never happen.

Sincerely,
Greg Mazurek=20
=20
=20
www.A1HostCo.com
a better flavor in hosting
East Coast: 1.877.767.6932
West Coast: 1.866.629.9986 =20
=20
----- Original Message -----=20

From: Jeff Huber - Listmail=20
To: 'Jegenye 2001 Bt' ; 'Miva Users List'=20
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 9:15 PM
Subject: RE: [meu] Open source and Miva


Mikl=F3s said: "All in all, open source works only with a large
pool of developers and only if there is a 'community feel' for
sharing. Neither is true for MivaScript. And I don't think
either of these conditions will ever change."

Well, one of those used to be true for Miva script. There used to
be a tremendous feeling of community among those that used the
language, but I fear that may not be true any more. And as for
the issue of size of developer pool, that is true, it is smaller
today than it was before.

I fear you are probably right Mikl=F3s, but I HOPE that it might
change. I think it sometimes doesn't take much to revitalize a
community, and maybe over the next year that can be done with
Miva script.

We'll see.

- Jeff Huber
President 4TheBest eCommerce Solutions
http://4TheBest.com
[email protected]
Office: 760-742-1469
Cell: 760-445-8454
=20

Open source and Miva Was: Re: encode base64



On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 20:58:50 -0700, Jeff Huber - Listmail
<[email protected]> gave utterance to the following:

> Open Source and making money are not incompatible.
>
> People can and do make money every day off of open source
> products.
>
> Open source is not about free software, it is about freely
> available source code. And there are lots of different variations
> on what people mean when they say Open Source.
>
> Hopefully we, or somebody else, will free up some resources
> eventually and get an Open Source, or Open Source organization
> for Miva script started, and then once it gets moving people will
> join in because it will be useful to do so.
>
This isn't a reply to any particular post in this thread, but I do feel a
little nervous about open-source comemrce solutions. Even with a large
developer community, we've seen how vulnerabilities can go undiscovered
for a couple of years (OpenSSL and plenty of others).
Someone looking for weaknesses to exploit has a much easier task if they
have full access to the source. If a dishonest person manages to find a
loophole, what's to stop them from keeping quiet about it and developing
an exploit (probably one that steals a small amount from a large number of
sites to minimise the risk of detection).

But totally closed source might be equally dangerous because module
developers might be creating vulnerabilities unawares. So either a system
where reputable businesses could have source access (shutting out the
smaller developers) or where all modules had to be certified, with their
source disclosed to Miva Corp (no doubt increasing module prices) would be
preferable.

(there's a vageuly parallel situation with Firefox extensions - given that
there doesn't seem to be any official mechanism for the Mozilla Foundation
to certify that developer X's extension does what it claims to and nothing
else, I don't see much difference between installing a Firefox extension
and an unsigned ActiveX control.)
--
Richard Grevers
Between two evils always pick the one you haven't tried

Open source and Miva



I actually like the green elves...=20

Yes, interest in Mivascript for standalone scripts is minimal, and yes =
there
are other tools & languages available. But there is a Miva community, =
after
all we shouldn't forget the Merchant people. Miva - unlike most other
languages - offers a playground to make a living with relatively little
hassle and minimal marketing effort, probably easier than in PHP land. =
This
is an important aspect. It offers many possibilities to feed the =
Merchant
market with standalone programs (not modules) that can or could =
integrate
with or wrap around Merchant. With the exception of Scot and Ivo this is =
a
virtually untapped market. Instead most people use PHP for this and jump
through loops and the result is almost always clumsy. I mean, seriously, =
it
is pathetic to see that people are advocating Miva modules and scripts
through PHP content management solutions and that almost all requests =
for
stuff like bulletin boards or thumbnail galleries are answered with PHP
scripts that have a notoriously bad security track record. The Merchant
users are running e-commerce, not some little homepages!

Greg, you refer of course to your contributions (among others your EZ =
Cart).
Well, I'm sorry to say but it takes a bit more than to place a link on a
mailing list and declare "This is open source, use it and contribute". =
After
all, every os-project is only as strong as its leaders, and frankly I =
don't
recall that since your initial announcement you made any efforts to =
promote
this or to keep people up to date about its progress. At the time Jeff
offered immediately to open MvOPENSOURCE.com - a perfect name for a =
platform
where we could work on larger project together and promote the work for =
open
or at least independent -non merchant- applications. Unfortunately,
immediately a nasty quarrel started (I don't know by whom, why and what
this was about), and the result was that MvOPENSOURCE was a dead born =
child.


Scot runs his Scot's script ring but I don't know how many people are in =
his
community. Adam maintains MvDevelopment - about 30 snippets in 3 years: =
But
it's there and available, just a bit out of sight.

On the other hand, Jack Wilson (RIP wherever you are, dear Jack, and if =
you
should read this, send us a sign of life!) formed a little group of =
people
within this group to collaborate on his IDE, MvPRO. He did the actual
coding, and used us for testing and usability questions. And interesting
enough, for a period of over a year Jack's little group produced more
communications than the entire Mivascript mailing list. So frankly, I =
don't
think that there is no "spirit of sharing", but rather a lack of =
available
interesting and well-maintained projects.=20


All the languages that are typically mentioned as alternatives to =
Mivascript
have one other aspect in common which is today probably the most =
important
one: The availability of libraries. Here, Miva is clearly at the very =
bottom
end, and this alone will prevent that Miva will ever return into =
mainstream.
There is some hope that the next major version of Empresa will bring =
some
new tools, but I'm afraid that we'll have to wait a few months, and in =
the
meantime build extentions that use native libraries, MvCOMMERCE or =
MvCALL.
After all, this was always possible - as a matter of fact has always =
been
one of the most important aspect for Merchant's success (payment =
gateways /
shipping integration).=20

If we want to create an awareness and demand for Mivascripts than it's
solely up to us to offer interesting scripts and libs to end-users and =
have
a platform where to meet and find them. PDF readers/writers, =
webservices,
database access, POSIX-Miva wrappers, etc. This also offers great
opportunities for programmers coming from other languages, since with =
such
libraries they could access a commercial market.=20

The greatest successtory and example for this is Copernicus-James' =
OpenXB.=20

Markus













-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On =
Behalf
Of Greg
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 7:34 AM
To: Jeff Huber - Listmail; 'Jegenye 2001 Bt'; 'Miva Users List'
Subject: Re: [meu] Open source and Miva

MessageSour puss? Gloomy Gus? Or maybe just being realistic?

You can wish that little green elves will visit during the night and =
build
you nice little Miva community for you to join in your Open Source =
project.
For me, I'll just be realistic... and wish you all the best in your
endeavor, and even contribute in the Open Source project... as I have =
done
MANY times in the past. I've been on this list for five years or more, =
and
I've seen the slow death of Miva (the language) AND the community. Why =
would
Miva attract ANY new developers when there is PHP, ASP, ColdFusion,
Python... and so many more readily available languages where the
"corporation" doesn't have their wallets in their way? (not that I blame
them at all for that...)=20

As for the "worthless doomed language"... who said it was doomed? I said =
it
is DEAD as far as attracting new developer blood. I love the rapid
development time of Miva (3.9x), and I will probably ALWAYS use Miva as =
my
primary Internet programming language. (3.9x, NOT compiled). And the =
fact
that very few hosting companies support non-compiled Miva, I don't see a
draw to the language for new developers. That has NEVER been the issue
here... So call me gloomy, call me sour... at least I'm not waiting for =
the
little green men to visit. :)

Sincerely,
Greg Mazurek=20
=20
=20
www.A1HostCo.com
a better flavor in hosting
East Coast: 1.877.767.6932
West Coast: 1.866.629.9986 =20
=20
----- Original Message -----=20

From: Jeff Huber - Listmail
To: 'Greg' ; 'Jegenye 2001 Bt' ; 'Miva Users List'=20
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 9:46 PM
Subject: RE: [meu] Open source and Miva


Greg,

I like Miva script as a language. That fact that I do hold out hope =
that
it might grow as a language, and that I want to see it improve, and want
people to know the cool stuff about it, etc. is one of the reason I am =
on
this list.

But if you are going to be such a gloomy gus about it all then why are =
you
even bothering with using Miva script? Why not go use PHP or Perl, or =
ASP,
or JSP, or something other than this worthless doomed language?

My bet is that even though you are being a sour puss, there are still
things you prefer about Miva script over other languages. And that is =
one of
the reasons it still has a chance to become more widely used.

I doubt it will never gain a PHP level of popularity, but it could be =
much
more popular than now and I would like that, and think it is possible, =
and I
think the fact that you still use it is a sign of hope

So cheer up and have a little bit of hope :)

- Jeff Huber
President 4TheBest eCommerce Solutions
http://4TheBest.com
[email protected]
Office: 760-742-1469
Cell: 760-445-8454


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Greg
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 9:21 PM
To: Jeff Huber - Listmail; 'Jegenye 2001 Bt'; 'Miva Users List'
Subject: Re: [meu] Open source and Miva


"I think it sometimes doesn't take much to revitalize a community, and
maybe over the next year that can be done with
Miva script."

Oh my... I guess everyone needs a dream! And now that FindWhat owns =
Miva
corp, and is ONLY interested in the Merchant package, creating
(revitalizing) a developers community will never happen.

Sincerely,
Greg Mazurek=20
=20
=20
www.A1HostCo.com
a better flavor in hosting
East Coast: 1.877.767.6932
West Coast: 1.866.629.9986 =20
=20
----- Original Message -----=20

From: Jeff Huber - Listmail=20
To: 'Jegenye 2001 Bt' ; 'Miva Users List'=20
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 9:15 PM
Subject: RE: [meu] Open source and Miva


Mikl=F3s said: "All in all, open source works only with a large
pool of developers and only if there is a 'community feel' for
sharing. Neither is true for MivaScript. And I don't think
either of these conditions will ever change."

Well, one of those used to be true for Miva script. There used to
be a tremendous feeling of community among those that used the
language, but I fear that may not be true any more. And as for
the issue of size of developer pool, that is true, it is smaller
today than it was before.

I fear you are probably right Mikl=F3s, but I HOPE that it might
change. I think it sometimes doesn't take much to revitalize a
community, and maybe over the next year that can be done with
Miva script.

We'll see.

- Jeff Huber
President 4TheBest eCommerce Solutions
http://4TheBest.com
[email protected]
Office: 760-742-1469
Cell: 760-445-8454
=20

Open source and Miva [OT]



I would have to agree with the statement: "Lack of interest". I've been
working with two other developers on the MAD Ring and they are using it
for their businesses. And try as I might to offer this to other folks
who want to sell downloadable products, there just isn't any interest.
When the interest isn't there, what's the point of trying to get a
community thing going?

One of the things to remember when dealing with the majority of the
mivascript community is this: it's all about the money. Anything that
doesn't bring in money isn't worth doing. Money is everything. Being a
"time merchant" means making money every second of the day. It means
that unless the wallet gets fatter, there is no point in doing it.
Yeah, it's a cynical viewpoint, but from what I've seen, especially
since the birth of the module megastores, it's the truth. Luckily there
are still a few of us who don't worship the almighty dollar and don't
mind volunteering the presious commodity called time, even if at the end
of the month (in my case at least) things get pretty tight.

For the curious- the MAD Ring is a ecommerce platform for downloadable
products. Includes a license manager and other nifty features. The Ring
aspect of it lets people search for something from any MAD Ring
installation (on any site) and come up with search results that span all
the MAD Ring nodes. This allows software developers to sell their own
stuff but be part of a global database, instead of paying huge
commissions to the module superstores on each sale.

Green elves are nice.

Scot


MvMarkus wrote:
> I actually like the green elves...
>
> Yes, interest in Mivascript for standalone scripts is minimal, and yes there
> are other tools & languages available. But there is a Miva community, after
> all we shouldn't forget the Merchant people. Miva - unlike most other
> languages - offers a playground to make a living with relatively little
> hassle and minimal marketing effort, probably easier than in PHP land. This
> is an important aspect. It offers many possibilities to feed the Merchant
> market with standalone programs (not modules) that can or could integrate
> with or wrap around Merchant. With the exception of Scot and Ivo this is a
> virtually untapped market. Instead most people use PHP for this and jump
> through loops and the result is almost always clumsy. I mean, seriously, it
> is pathetic to see that people are advocating Miva modules and scripts
> through PHP content management solutions and that almost all requests for
> stuff like bulletin boards or thumbnail galleries are answered with PHP
> scripts that have a notoriously bad security track record. The Merchant
> users are running e-commerce, not some little homepages!
>
> Greg, you refer of course to your contributions (among others your EZ Cart).
> Well, I'm sorry to say but it takes a bit more than to place a link on a
> mailing list and declare "This is open source, use it and contribute". After
> all, every os-project is only as strong as its leaders, and frankly I don't
> recall that since your initial announcement you made any efforts to promote
> this or to keep people up to date about its progress. At the time Jeff
> offered immediately to open MvOPENSOURCE.com - a perfect name for a platform
> where we could work on larger project together and promote the work for open
> or at least independent -non merchant- applications. Unfortunately,
> immediately a nasty quarrel started (I don't know by whom, why and what
> this was about), and the result was that MvOPENSOURCE was a dead born child.
>
>
> Scot runs his Scot's script ring but I don't know how many people are in his
> community. Adam maintains MvDevelopment - about 30 snippets in 3 years: But
> it's there and available, just a bit out of sight.
>
> On the other hand, Jack Wilson (RIP wherever you are, dear Jack, and if you
> should read this, send us a sign of life!) formed a little group of people
> within this group to collaborate on his IDE, MvPRO. He did the actual
> coding, and used us for testing and usability questions. And interesting
> enough, for a period of over a year Jack's little group produced more
> communications than the entire Mivascript mailing list. So frankly, I don't
> think that there is no "spirit of sharing", but rather a lack of available
> interesting and well-maintained projects.
>
>
> All the languages that are typically mentioned as alternatives to Mivascript
> have one other aspect in common which is today probably the most important
> one: The availability of libraries. Here, Miva is clearly at the very bottom
> end, and this alone will prevent that Miva will ever return into mainstream.
> There is some hope that the next major version of Empresa will bring some
> new tools, but I'm afraid that we'll have to wait a few months, and in the
> meantime build extentions that use native libraries, MvCOMMERCE or MvCALL.
> After all, this was always possible - as a matter of fact has always been
> one of the most important aspect for Merchant's success (payment gateways /
> shipping integration).
>
> If we want to create an awareness and demand for Mivascripts than it's
> solely up to us to offer interesting scripts and libs to end-users and have
> a platform where to meet and find them. PDF readers/writers, webservices,
> database access, POSIX-Miva wrappers, etc. This also offers great
> opportunities for programmers coming from other languages, since with such
> libraries they could access a commercial market.
>
> The greatest successtory and example for this is Copernicus-James' OpenXB.
>
> Markus
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
> Of Greg
> Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 7:34 AM
> To: Jeff Huber - Listmail; 'Jegenye 2001 Bt'; 'Miva Users List'
> Subject: Re: [meu] Open source and Miva
>
> MessageSour puss? Gloomy Gus? Or maybe just being realistic?
>
> You can wish that little green elves will visit during the night and build
> you nice little Miva community for you to join in your Open Source project.
> For me, I'll just be realistic... and wish you all the best in your
> endeavor, and even contribute in the Open Source project... as I have done
> MANY times in the past. I've been on this list for five years or more, and
> I've seen the slow death of Miva (the language) AND the community. Why would
> Miva attract ANY new developers when there is PHP, ASP, ColdFusion,
> Python... and so many more readily available languages where the
> "corporation" doesn't have their wallets in their way? (not that I blame
> them at all for that...)
>
> As for the "worthless doomed language"... who said it was doomed? I said it
> is DEAD as far as attracting new developer blood. I love the rapid
> development time of Miva (3.9x), and I will probably ALWAYS use Miva as my
> primary Internet programming language. (3.9x, NOT compiled). And the fact
> that very few hosting companies support non-compiled Miva, I don't see a
> draw to the language for new developers. That has NEVER been the issue
> here... So call me gloomy, call me sour... at least I'm not waiting for the
> little green men to visit. :)
>
> Sincerely,
> Greg Mazurek
>
>
> www.A1HostCo.com
> a better flavor in hosting
> East Coast: 1.877.767.6932
> West Coast: 1.866.629.9986
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Jeff Huber - Listmail
> To: 'Greg' ; 'Jegenye 2001 Bt' ; 'Miva Users List'
> Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 9:46 PM
> Subject: RE: [meu] Open source and Miva
>
>
> Greg,
>
> I like Miva script as a language. That fact that I do hold out hope that
> it might grow as a language, and that I want to see it improve, and want
> people to know the cool stuff about it, etc. is one of the reason I am on
> this list.
>
> But if you are going to be such a gloomy gus about it all then why are you
> even bothering with using Miva script? Why not go use PHP or Perl, or ASP,
> or JSP, or something other than this worthless doomed language?
>
> My bet is that even though you are being a sour puss, there are still
> things you prefer about Miva script over other languages. And that is one of
> the reasons it still has a chance to become more widely used.
>
> I doubt it will never gain a PHP level of popularity, but it could be much
> more popular than now and I would like that, and think it is possible, and I
> think the fact that you still use it is a sign of hope
>
> So cheer up and have a little bit of hope :)
>
> - Jeff Huber
> President 4TheBest eCommerce Solutions
> http://4TheBest.com
> [email protected]
> Office: 760-742-1469
> Cell: 760-445-8454
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Greg
> Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 9:21 PM
> To: Jeff Huber - Listmail; 'Jegenye 2001 Bt'; 'Miva Users List'
> Subject: Re: [meu] Open source and Miva
>
>
> "I think it sometimes doesn't take much to revitalize a community, and
> maybe over the next year that can be done with
> Miva script."
>
> Oh my... I guess everyone needs a dream! And now that FindWhat owns Miva
> corp, and is ONLY interested in the Merchant package, creating
> (revitalizing) a developers community will never happen.
>
> Sincerely,
> Greg Mazurek
>
>
> www.A1HostCo.com
> a better flavor in hosting
> East Coast: 1.877.767.6932
> West Coast: 1.866.629.9986
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Jeff Huber - Listmail
> To: 'Jegenye 2001 Bt' ; 'Miva Users List'
> Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 9:15 PM
> Subject: RE: [meu] Open source and Miva
>
>
> Miklós said: "All in all, open source works only with a large
> pool of developers and only if there is a 'community feel' for
> sharing. Neither is true for MivaScript. And I don't think
> either of these conditions will ever change."
>
> Well, one of those used to be true for Miva script. There used to
> be a tremendous feeling of community among those that used the
> language, but I fear that may not be true any more. And as for
> the issue of size of developer pool, that is true, it is smaller
> today than it was before.
>
> I fear you are probably right Miklós, but I HOPE that it might
> change. I think it sometimes doesn't take much to revitalize a
> community, and maybe over the next year that can be done with
> Miva script.
>
> We'll see.
>
> - Jeff Huber
> President 4TheBest eCommerce Solutions
> http://4TheBest.com
> [email protected]
> Office: 760-742-1469
> Cell: 760-445-8454
>
>
>