PageBuilder is great but...

[lesliekirk]

I am trying my darnest to move storeowners to PageBuilder and to use the latest Shadows ReadyTheme BUT there are still some things that are not quite there. That should be okay. I should be able to use the product_display item instead of the sequence but I can't. Whomever has been designing this is only thinking of PageBuilder and really isn't looking at what happens when you can't use the Product Details Component.

I will say I am getting the hang of using Fragments (having to include CSS and javascript within it) but I spend a lot of time trying to make a Component work, only to hit a wall. I then spend even more time trying to figure out why code that used to work in a previous version of Shadows now no longer works. I've brought this up before, gave up on getting answers, and found a workaround when it should just still work...

[William Davis]

I am trying my darnest to move storeowners to PageBuilder and to use the latest Shadows ReadyTheme BUT there are still some things that are not quite there. That should be okay. I should be able to use the product_display item instead of the sequence but I can't. Whomever has been designing this is only thinking of PageBuilder and really isn't looking at what happens when you can't use the Product Details Component.

I will say I am getting the hang of using Fragments (having to include CSS and javascript within it) but I spend a lot of time trying to make a Component work, only to hit a wall. I then spend even more time trying to figure out why code that used to work in a previous version of Shadows now no longer works. I've brought this up before, gave up on getting answers, and found a workaround when it should just still work...

Is PageBuilder worth the trouble, despite all its issues? If so, why?

[lesliekirk]

Is PageBuilder worth the trouble, despite all its issues? If so, why?

There are components that are great, even with the limited ability to edit. Definitely good for the "content" type pages. Good for header and footer content (wish it had the ability to assign by category or product). The Category Listing Component is getting better, but the Product List Component is not quite there yet. I have found the marvels of using Fragments and was able to add the Shopper Approved Customer Reviews for the product. I'm going to give another try at the Wait List.

BUT what frustrates me the most is, after updating to what seemed like version 10.12 of Shadows, if I try to use the default template without PageBuilder it's a mess. CSS is missing, Javascript doesn't work (and I have mentioned this before). At first, it was just the CSS and the tabbed content. Now, in a store that I'm using 10.13.00 (in a branch), the image layout is a mess (probably lacking CSS, hopefully), the quantity input is out of whack (again, probably CSS).

[William Davis]

There are components that are great, even with the limited ability to edit. Definitely good for the "content" type pages. Good for header and footer content (wish it had the ability to assign by category or product). The Category Listing Component is getting better, but the Product List Component is not quite there yet. I have found the marvels of using Fragments and was able to add the Shopper Approved Customer Reviews for the product. I'm going to give another try at the Wait List.

BUT what frustrates me the most is, after updating to what seemed like version 10.12 of Shadows, if I try to use the default template without PageBuilder it's a mess. CSS is missing, Javascript doesn't work (and I have mentioned this before). At first, it was just the CSS and the tabbed content. Now, in a store that I'm using 10.13.00 (in a branch), the image layout is a mess (probably lacking CSS, hopefully), the quantity input is out of whack (again, probably CSS).

That’s been our concern as well, which is why we’ve held off on implementing PageBuilder for now. As the saying goes, “you have to crack a few eggs to make an omelet” -progress often comes with a few bumps along the way. The direction looks promising though, and I’m optimistic that these issues will get resolved so we can all take full advantage of PageBuilder.

[lesliekirk]

That’s been our concern as well, which is why we’ve held off on implementing PageBuilder for now. As the saying goes, “you have to crack a few eggs to make an omelet” -progress often comes with a few bumps along the way. The direction looks promising though, and I’m optimistic that these issues will get resolved so we can all take full advantage of PageBuilder.

Out of curiosity, are you using Shadows? If so, which version?

[William Davis]

Out of curiosity, are you using Shadows? If so, which version?

Not sure ... Shadows 2.0+, that does not sound right.

[lesliekirk]

Not sure ... Shadows 2.0+, that does not sound right.

2.0 is an older version. I've been trying to update a site on that version to the latest version. The latest version has substituted the PageBuilder sequence item for the product_display item. If I try to change back to the product_display item, things get really, really messed up.

On the bright side, when I have added the sequence item or the header_sequence and footer_sequence items to older versions of Shadows, I haven't had these issues. I really like adding the header_sequence and footer_sequence items to a page, as it gives me a lot more flexibility than just the sequence item alone.

[Bruce - PhosphorMedia]

Most of our clients don't use Page Builder. We do have many who make content updates on almost a daily basis (non-product). What works for them are simple RT Content Sections using a 'mark-down' type of syntax for headings, bold, etc. Images use the RT Image sections. This has worked much better, faster and less fustrating for all concerns.
I get it that some might need the flexiability of Page Builder, but in our experiance those are outliers.

[lesliekirk]

Most of our clients don't use Page Builder. We do have many who make content updates on almost a daily basis (non-product). What works for them are simple RT Content Sections using a 'mark-down' type of syntax for headings, bold, etc. Images use the RT Image sections. This has worked much better, faster and less fustrating for all concerns.
I get it that some might need the flexiability of Page Builder, but in our experiance those are outliers.

Bruce - PhosphorMedia FWIW, I don't find PageBuilder quite as flexible as doing things old school. Most of the OG probably won't either. FYI - PageBuilder makes extensive use of "mark-down"

But, if you start with a fresh install that has Shadows 10.13.00 - you will only have the option to use PageBuilder with the categories and product layouts UNLESS you recode it all and get past the issues I have been encountering. What I am attempting to do is to find what I think are going to be stumbling blocks to get current store owners to make the move to PageBuilder.

I am also trying to point out issues I am finding with Shadows 10.13.00 if I want to go "old school" due to some of the shortcomings of PageBuilder.

[Bruce - PhosphorMedia]

But, if you start with a fresh install that has Shadows 10.13.00 - you will only have the option to use PageBuilder with the categories and product layouts UNLESS you recode it all and get past the issues I have been encountering. What I am attempting to do is to find what I think are going to be stumbling blocks to get current store owners to make the move to PageBuilder.

Really? The standard templates aren't under the "Advanced" section? (Sorry, have not used a fresh install yet.

[lesliekirk]

Really? The standard templates aren't under the "Advanced" section? (Sorry, have not used a fresh install yet.

The Templates are still under the Advanced section. What has changed are a few of the templates themself. Might wanna take a peek at Shadows 10.13.00...maybe then you might be able to help troubleshoot the issues I'm having while trying to update a site to the latest version of Shadows. Good grief! Am I the only person attempting to do this?

[lesliekirk]

The Templates are still under the Advanced section. What has changed are a few of the templates themself. Might wanna take a peek at Shadows 10.13.00...maybe then you might be able to help troubleshoot the issues I'm having while trying to update a site to the latest version of Shadows. Good grief! Am I the only person attempting to do this?

Circling back to this, if you decided to update a site to Shadows 10.13.00 and you find yourself needing to use the "Legacy" <mvt:item name="product_display" /> instead of the <mvt:item name="sequence" />
Nick reminded me that the template code is available in the GitHub Repository: https://github.com/mivaecommerce/shadows - you will still need the related CSS and javascript. If your javascript foo is weak (like mine is), find yourself a javascript buddy (or two). The javascript for the tabbed content tripped me up for a minute, but I found a way to overcome the issue. The CSS is tedious, but it gives you a chance to tweak it. Don't forget to re-add the product_display_imagemachine item(s)

Scrolling through all of the Diff files it was as I suspected, the change from the <mvt:item name="product_display" /> to the <mvt:item name="sequence" /> in the PROD Page came in Shadows version 10.12.00. My apologies that I missed this in the Miva 10.12.00 Release Notes:

Shadows Features/Improvements/Bug Fixes
New Features

SHDWS-724

Shadows: Update PROD and PATR to use mmx-product-display

I was very disappointed when I discovered that the CSS/javascript wasn't re-added back into Shadows 10.13, as I thought it might have just been an oversight.

Why have I been updating sites to use Shadows 10.13? There are a number of template and coding improvements, plus it did include the new Product Details Flex Component. I see a lot of promise in PageBuilder and am trying to implement it as much as I can!