Seeking Advice on Updating from PR7 to PR8

[teamjunk]

I apologize in advance if this runs long....

We recently launched with PR7 update10. PR8 debuted when we were neck deep in developing with PR7. I am contemplating updating to PR8 and I'm concerned about how this will affect the following things:

1) We don't have additional images on our site at the moment. I am about to dig into this task. I've been reading a lot about the Image Machine and it sounds a little confusing. Is it worth it to upgrade for this built-in capability or should I figure out a way to add additional images in PR7 using an external lightbox and custom fields?

2) We rely heavily on Toolkit's Estimate Shipping function and we charge shipping based on whatever UPS or USPS method is selected by the customer. I read that UPS no longer displays rates alongside USPS and FedEx in PR8. Is this shipping module specific or an overall PR8 thing? Meaning, can we continue to use the USPS Online Rate Calculation (Domestic & International) module and UPS Domestic Shipping Calculator as is? I know our shipping process is antiquated but it's something we'll be tackling in the future. Babysteps!

3)We use Shipworks 3. I am hesitant to upgrade to PR8 because of the order status bug. Should I let this stand in my way?

I realize there are plenty of other reasons to upgrade to PR8 (like being able to use Auth.net within the admin, better file import/export capabilities, etc.) but losing these three capabilities are a deal breaker at this time.

And one last question (promise!) What is the best way to upgrade? I was going to contact my host about setting up a dev site with PR8 or is it OK to install the updates on my live site (while in maintenance of course)? Will updating my live site affect the front end?

Thank you in advance for any advice/opinions you share!

[Rick Wilson]

Re: Seeking Advice on Updating from PR7 to PR8

2) We rely heavily on Toolkit's Estimate Shipping function and we charge shipping based on whatever UPS or USPS method is selected by the customer. I read that UPS no longer displays rates alongside USPS and FedEx in PR8. Is this shipping module specific or an overall PR8 thing? Meaning, can we continue to use the USPS Online Rate Calculation (Domestic & International) module and UPS Domestic Shipping Calculator as is? I know our shipping process is antiquated but it's something we'll be tackling in the future. Babysteps!

You can continue using the old UPS Domestic Shipping Calculator, but we're no longer updating the rates. So your current setup won't change at all, but if you want to start using the new UPS Ready Tools module, then yes those rates (are currently) suppressed when a rate from FedEx or USPS is also available (they do work fine with all non "live" rate methods).

I am working with UPS to see if we can alter these rules at all, so keep up to date on this issue as if they change their Terms Of Service, we can easily change the software.

3)We use Shipworks 3. I am hesitant to upgrade to PR8 because of the order status bug. Should I let this stand in my way?

You should talk to ShipWorks about this one if they're critical to your business.

And one last question (promise!) What is the best way to upgrade? I was going to contact my host about setting up a dev site with PR8 or is it OK to install the updates on my live site (while in maintenance of course)? Will updating my live site affect the front end?

You shouldn't need a Dev site for this upgrade as it won't automatically change anything on your front end.

[Keitho]

Re: Seeking Advice on Updating from PR7 to PR8

Rick, great nugget in there about UPS. I'm sure that that some of us would be happy to write a note in support of them loosening the shackles. The forced hiding of USPS is terrible, since it is often the most cost effective for small mailable orders and at times the ONLY method a customer can use (e.g. P.O. Box). I, for one, am considering going with FEDEX because of UPS' heavyhandedness. I don't think we are sophisticated enough to structure a Regular/Fast/Fastest shipping approach ala Amazon.

[Rick Wilson]

Re: Seeking Advice on Updating from PR7 to PR8

Keith,

It doesn't force hide USPS, it works the opposite direction. If USPS or FedEx rates are present, it force hides UPS.

I think I'm close to a solution with them, so sit tit for now.

[Keitho]

Re: Seeking Advice on Updating from PR7 to PR8

Wow, that's the first time I've heard it put that way, that UPS will hide itself. I thought that they forced MIVA to hide USPS and FedEx.

Standing by...

[Rick Wilson]

Re: Seeking Advice on Updating from PR7 to PR8

They didn't force us to do anything. They have rules, the rules state you can't allow for Rate Shopping. Which means you can't use their API's to simultaneously display their rates on the same screen as USPS or FedEx.

We made the choices that way to fulfill their restrictions and be able to complete their certification.

[teamjunk]

Re: Seeking Advice on Updating from PR7 to PR8

Hi Rick, thank you for taking the time to respond.

So regardless of what version of Miva Merchant I'm running, you are no longer updating the UPS Domestic Shipping Calculator, correct? I will definitely continue to check on the status of this. Fingers crossed that UPS snaps out of it. Otherwise it looks like we will be moving forward solely with USPS and eventually FedEx. Thanks again!

[Rick Wilson]

Re: Seeking Advice on Updating from PR7 to PR8

You're correct that module's rates come from a database that we're no longer updating regardless of version.

[teamjunk]

Re: Seeking Advice on Updating from PR7 to PR8

Got it. Thanks, Rick!

[RMWAnnie]

Re: Seeking Advice on Updating from PR7 to PR8

Looking for a progress update on this issue .....

We've postponed updating to PR8 because of it. Currently, we use Viking Coders USPS and UPS modules (and also have FedEx, but it isn't currently used). I don't think the update would cause those modules to behave in the same way as Miva's USPS and Ready Tools, but am hesitant to make any changes until this issue is resolved. We don't want to limit our customer's options when it comes to shipping.

Thanks,
Annie

[Rick Wilson]

Re: Seeking Advice on Updating from PR7 to PR8

Annie,

There's no reason to hold off on upgrading as you can still use the old UPS module (if that's what you're using now). Upgrading won't break anything.

However as for UPS loosening up their requirements, that's going to be a multi-month process that requires an updated contract with UPS and Miva Merchant, so the soonest we might see that change is in Update 7 in June.

They have asked that I collect customer feedback though, so if this would impact your usage of UPS, please post here or email me so I can send them that information.

[RMWAnnie]

Re: Seeking Advice on Updating from PR7 to PR8

Thanks, Rick. We don't use the UPS Ready Tools. We have Viking Coders UPS Custom Integration, USPS Advanced and FedEx Advanced. I guess I'm a little lazy - those are all configured and as Miva matured I chose to just keep doing what we were doing rather than reconfiguring things.

As far as feedback for UPS, we are already on the edge of switching back to FedEx over a couple of issues - primarily International shipping (wish we could find a DHL module). However, if we were unable to offer UPS rates as an alternative to USPS, that would probably push us over the edge. Our shipments range in weight from a few ounces to 30 pounds or more. If UPS won't allow their rates to be shown along with USPS to allow the customer to chose the most cost effective method, what's the point of using UPS? We certainly don't intend to force a customer who purchases a $1.99 widget weighing 4 ounces to pay $8.00 or more for shipping. As of now, USPS usually gets the business for light-weight packages and UPS wins on the large ones. (I know they have some sort of smart mail now, but they have never been able to get it to work with our Stone Edge Order Manager system - we tried). Anyway, that's my two cents worth.

Thanks again for your quick reply.

Annie

[chucklasker-BANNNED]

Re: Seeking Advice on Updating from PR7 to PR8

Testing a store with UPS Ready Tools and USPS, it appears the UPS Ready Tools module not only doesn't show rates when USPS options are available (which I consider to be illegal monopolistic business practices, but that's another story), but that it doesn't show UPS rates whenever the USPS module is active at all. Is that true? The reason I ask is the client has Shipping Supermod, and even when we set the conditions such that it shows either USPS or UPS, but never both, the UPS Ready Tools still doesn't give rates. It's only when we disable the USPS module that it starts to show rates.

I'll put in my 2 cents that this is an important issue for several clients and in the very least is is creating bad will against UPS.

[Rick Wilson]

Re: Seeking Advice on Updating from PR7 to PR8

but that it doesn't show UPS rates whenever the USPS module is active at all. Is that true?

No that's NOT true. It only will suppress UPS rates if either a USPS or FedEx rate is also in the stream of rates that came back from API calls.

[chucklasker-BANNNED]

Re: Seeking Advice on Updating from PR7 to PR8

Cool. Has this been tested with Shipping Supermod, though? We have set up rules in Shipping Supermod as follows:

1. International shipping address - show only UPS rates.

2. Domestic shipping address - show only USPS rates.

However, with these rules, when using an international shipping address, UPS rates still don't show up. They only show up when we deactivate the USPS module itself. Could the UPS Ready Tools module be seeing data from Shipping Supermod that makes it think there are USPS rates being provided?