Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

$50 per additional simultaneous Administrative User

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: $50 per additional simultaneous Administrative User

    I don't have an issue with raising the price but the method used to determine usage and percent increase seems flawed, at least for us, for how we actually use the admin. In the past we had the admin timeout set too high so even though someone may only need to do something for 5 minutes they wouldn't be logged out for hours so the simultaneous seat usage is artificially high. I know you say upgrade to Miva 9 to have control over the seats but until you build if the better ability to control the individual users it just becomes a big headache seeing who is logged into which site. I don't really care about a user getting booted but I really don't want StoneEdge to get booted. Like I said we would be able to get by with 2 seats per site (one being an API) and would be fine with that increase in price if we had better control over the users (which cant get booted). It feels like you are rushing to get the $ before the seat system is where it needs to be. I guess this might only be true for 10% of the people but that is still a pretty good # of customers.

    I think you are missing how inconvenient the seat method is for some people. I realized you did the math on a bunch of different methods of increase and this method gave you the $ you wanted but from a business prospective on our end and what we really use the admin for it makes more sense to have a lower seat total and deal with headaches. We have 4 users for 4 sites with maybe 3 of the users spending 15 minutes a day in the admin (if I did the $ per day cost calculation based on 15 minutes a day of usage it would be much higher than $2/day) but for these 4 users we would need 16 seats even though a single user could only be doing something on one site at a time. Looking at max simultaneous log ins over a month period isn't a good way to determine overall admin usage for some people. I get that you don't have a better way to do it but that still doesn't make this a good way.

    So say for a site that has only 1 user and that is all they need they still get all the improvements made since 1997 with no price increase but for us to have 3 users be able to work at the same time if need be for a few minutes a day we should pay $600 ($150 x 4) per month more than them for nothing different they they have. This is the part that seems unfair. If we did order management in the admin I could totally see the reason for us paying $50 per seat per site but we don't.

    On a side note what needs to be done to be a certified developer. We have one person that does 5 sites (one site not associated with 4 mentioned above) do we really need to have 5 more seats for this one person ($10 per day for one user) to develop or does he just have to switch to working nights?

    Comment


    • Re: $50 per additional simultaneous Administrative User

      BkraM,

      Contact me via email, we will manually fix your invoice (that might have been lost at the top of my other thread).

      We're also working on certified Developer seats that bypass this restriction. They'll have a cost but they will work across all stores, we'll be announcing this in March at MivaCon.
      Thanks,

      Rick Wilson
      CEO
      Miva, Inc.
      [email protected]
      https://www.miva.com

      Comment


      • Re: $50 per additional simultaneous Administrative User

        BkraM,

        While maybe not a complete (and perfectly satisfying process) but is someone only needs 15 minutes in the admin, they just log in, do their 15 and then log out. The next person logs in, and maybe its 10/20 minutes...but when done, logs out. Only one "Seat" is missing.

        Again, while not optimal (and yes, requiring a change in behavior) we find that most of our smaller clients can make slight adjustments to their business process and not incur any additional charge. For example, the shipping person logs in, creates a batch of orders, prints it out (to pdf) then logs out and runs the pdf file on another computer. Same with Product addition. Create the data in a flat file, then have one person upload. This also allows one--hopefully more experienced or editorial based--person to review before actually uploading the data and making it live. Its not always going to be ideal, but it may, in just as many cases, actually improve business process (as my second example).

        We WOULD like to know if there is much call for "non-admin" access to information. For the most part, read only is very easy to implement. (i.e., giving someone the ability to access the shipping info for orders). Updating SOME information might also be doable (cost wise) such as having an outside post of products into the admin. (Note: it would require an admin login, but, only for the length of time need to post data (about a second).

        Lastely, just to clarify: an additional admin seat is only required for SIMULTANEOUS log ins.
        Bruce Golub
        Phosphor Media - "Your Success is our Business"

        Improve Your Customer Service | Get MORE Customers | Edit CSS/Javascript/HTML Easily | Make Your Site Faster | Get Indexed by Google | Free Modules | Follow Us on Facebook
        phosphormedia.com

        Comment


        • Re: $50 per additional simultaneous Administrative User

          Rick, since you are able to track the Version 9 Admin usage why not allocate a month's worth of Admin hours for each $50.00. In a 30 day month a store owner would have 720 (or whatever number you decide) hours to share among users and if it's exceeded you are welcome to charge the next $50 increment (and beyond). Yes, the overage tally could be a month behind but you guys are very good at charging immediately for data overages on the base hosting plan. Just my two cents...
          Keith Oratz
          PrepareSmart, LLC - Emergency Preparedness Supplies and Professional Grade Search and Rescue Gear
          www.preparesmart.com

          Comment


          • Re: $50 per additional simultaneous Administrative User

            Keith,

            While that's not a bad conceptual idea, it's overkill.

            We'd have to track average admin usage currently over a large data set (something we've never done previously), apply what learn by the revenue expected from this price increase and the 720 hours would likely end up being a whole lot more than $50/month.

            At $50 the price is low enough, that we've appropriately engineered the discrete level of tracking.

            If our product was $50k a year or something, then we might look into that level of discrete billing, but at $600/year, it's simply not worth it to engineer it any farther.
            Thanks,

            Rick Wilson
            CEO
            Miva, Inc.
            [email protected]
            https://www.miva.com

            Comment


            • Re: $50 per additional simultaneous Administrative User

              Originally posted by Bruce - PhosphorMedia View Post
              BkraM,

              While maybe not a complete (and perfectly satisfying process) but is someone only needs 15 minutes in the admin, they just log in, do their 15 and then log out. The next person logs in, and maybe its 10/20 minutes...but when done, logs out. Only one "Seat" is missing.

              Again, while not optimal (and yes, requiring a change in behavior) we find that most of our smaller clients can make slight adjustments to their business process and not incur any additional charge. For example, the shipping person logs in, creates a batch of orders, prints it out (to pdf) then logs out and runs the pdf file on another computer. Same with Product addition. Create the data in a flat file, then have one person upload. This also allows one--hopefully more experienced or editorial based--person to review before actually uploading the data and making it live. Its not always going to be ideal, but it may, in just as many cases, actually improve business process (as my second example).

              We WOULD like to know if there is much call for "non-admin" access to information. For the most part, read only is very easy to implement. (i.e., giving someone the ability to access the shipping info for orders). Updating SOME information might also be doable (cost wise) such as having an outside post of products into the admin. (Note: it would require an admin login, but, only for the length of time need to post data (about a second).

              Lastely, just to clarify: an additional admin seat is only required for SIMULTANEOUS log ins.
              Bruce for category and product maintenance of any kind you could also use StoreMan, we have been using it for years on our MM4+ store, excellent solution I highly recommend it to anyone. Would you know if that solution requires Admin access?
              Last edited by William Davis; 01-11-15, 12:31 PM.
              Thank you, Bill Davis

              Comment


              • Re: $50 per additional simultaneous Administrative User

                Yes. StoreMan requires Admin access in the same way ANY outside tool (Order Manager, Synco, ShipWorks, etc) would. However, SOON! (hopefully). We'll be able to make these tools Login and then Log back out immediately after they are done. This would be the SAME concept that I have been talking about. Basically, if you look at your actual time in the Admin, 90% of it is looking at, or creating content. Less than 10% is actually committing data to the Merchant system (which is when you need the actual Admin Seat).
                Bruce Golub
                Phosphor Media - "Your Success is our Business"

                Improve Your Customer Service | Get MORE Customers | Edit CSS/Javascript/HTML Easily | Make Your Site Faster | Get Indexed by Google | Free Modules | Follow Us on Facebook
                phosphormedia.com

                Comment


                • Re: $50 per additional simultaneous Administrative User

                  I am happy that we have a choice between buying additional seat licenses or working within the restraints of a single seat rather than a straight price increase. Being a Mom and Pop business (literally) we have been forced to find ways to streamline our business so the two of us can process, package, and ship as many orders as possible, as fast as possible - without hiring help. As a result, we have learned how to get into Miva, do what we have to do, and get out as fast as possible. Not because of the new seat license model, but because we needed to stay productive.

                  Over the years, we have added a lot of 3rd party modules to help manage routine processes because we have found it cheaper than hiring help. There are a lot of great features in the new version of Miva, but it is not necessarily the fastest way to do things. (sorry Rick) Take a look at your workflow (or your client's). Take a look at some of the modules and offline tools available. If you find that you need more seat licenses than you can afford, there are probably some opportunities for improvement in your workflow. If you really do need more seat licenses, pony up the money so we Mom and Pop's don't have to.
                  Jim Sisk
                  Uncommon Treasures

                  Comment


                  • Re: $50 per additional simultaneous Administrative User

                    Originally posted by Bruce - PhosphorMedia View Post
                    Yes. StoreMan requires Admin access in the same way ANY outside tool (Order Manager, Synco, ShipWorks, etc) would. However, SOON! (hopefully). We'll be able to make these tools Login and then Log back out immediately after they are done. This would be the SAME concept that I have been talking about. Basically, if you look at your actual time in the Admin, 90% of it is looking at, or creating content. Less than 10% is actually committing data to the Merchant system (which is when you need the actual Admin Seat).
                    Did not understand what you meant by "...committing data..."?
                    Thank you, Bill Davis

                    Comment


                    • Re: $50 per additional simultaneous Administrative User

                      Actually sending the request to update information to the Merchant admin.
                      Bruce Golub
                      Phosphor Media - "Your Success is our Business"

                      Improve Your Customer Service | Get MORE Customers | Edit CSS/Javascript/HTML Easily | Make Your Site Faster | Get Indexed by Google | Free Modules | Follow Us on Facebook
                      phosphormedia.com

                      Comment


                      • Re: $50 per additional simultaneous Administrative User

                        I'm closing this thread (but leaving it here for posterity) at almost 300 posts it's become too burdensome to be facilitating discussion any longer.

                        I am working on a blog post that will answer these questions:

                        1. Why are you changing your pricing?

                        2. Why arenít you grandfathering in existing clients on your old pricing? Or at least clients who havenít upgraded to 9 yet?


                        3. Why donít you include 2 seats in the base price?


                        4. Why didnít you just raise everyoneís price a little bit across the board?


                        5. Why are you forcing me to pay for more and more new features I never asked for (The Microsoft Word dilemma)?


                        6. Do I really have to pay for a seat for my Developer (or Module Developer) who needs access?


                        7. Do I have to pay for a seat for another product like Synchro or ShipWorks?


                        8. Why donít you track actual minutes used per admin user and bill that way, this way if I have an employee who only logs in once in a while, I donít have to buy them a whole seat?

                        Once I complete this post (later this week) and the associated history of "how we got here" for the true wonks out there, I'll start a new thread for any future discussion that needs to take place. It'll help keep a focus and meaning to this process.
                        Thanks,

                        Rick Wilson
                        CEO
                        Miva, Inc.
                        [email protected]
                        https://www.miva.com

                        Comment


                        • Re: $50 per additional simultaneous Administrative User

                          There are now 2 blog posts live that summarize this thread.

                          First is the one that answers the questions outlined above and you can find it here:

                          http://www.miva.com/blog/your-multi-...tions-answered

                          Second is more of a history of how we got here and be forewarned it's more meandering and stream of conscious in nature but if you like digging into the history of these kinds of things, there's some good info in here as well:

                          http://www.miva.com/blog/multi-seat-...he-hosting-ind
                          Thanks,

                          Rick Wilson
                          CEO
                          Miva, Inc.
                          [email protected]
                          https://www.miva.com

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X

                          This website uses cookies to identify visitors, track visitors to our website, store login session information and to remember your user preferences. By continuing to use this site you agree to our use of cookies. Learn More.

                          This website uses cookies. By continuing to use this site you agree to our use of cookies. Learn More.

                          Accept