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  • MailChimp Automatically Opt-In All Customers

    I have a question about the option in the MailChimp module to automatically opt-in all customers.

    Here's what the module's configuration documentation says:

    Automatically Opt-In All Customers - With this selected any customer who purchases from your store will automatically be added into your MailChimp mailing list. Important: If you enable this setting, be sure your website policies clearly states that all customers will automatically be added to your mailing list to avoid breaking any anti-spam laws.
    I had this option enabled, but what I was seeing in my MailChimp account was that customers who purchased items and were added to the list were tagged as "This person is only eligible for transactional emails." Then I turned that option off to see what would happen. Customers who made purchases also got added to my MailChimp list and were tagged as "This person is only eligible for transactional emails." So on the MailChimp side, it doesn't appear like this option does anything.

    I've tried manually uploading customer information to MailChimp to update list records, but the record in MailChimp does not change. The person remains tagged as eligible for transactional emails only.

    Can someone explain how this option is working and how it would be possible to add or update someone who makes a purchase to the MailChimp list so they receive more than just transactional emails?
    Todd Gibson
    Oliver + S | Sewing Patterns for Kids and the Whole Family

  • I don't use MailChimp so I cannot answer your question but I can say that their policy gets it wrong. You have a "business relationship" with your customers and that is as good as any opt-in. You can send them any kind of transactional or advertising email without violating any anti-spam laws. Interestingly, the Can-Spam Act does NOT require that your recepients "Opt-In" but all email services spread that misinformation.

    There are a few things that you are required to do with any email ads:

    1. Write a subject line that makes it clear that it is advertising (no deception).
    2. Include a physical address.
    3. Include a means of opting-out.

    Take a look at the Federal Trade Commission site for a clear and authoritative explanation. https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/busi...guide-business

    Previously, I was spending $500 per month on an email service (not MailChimp) and I got tired of having them telling me what I could not do and who I could have on my list. I now use a Miva dedicated server for my business so I can send my own emails (about 800k emails per month) and manage my own list. It has been very liberating. I use GroupMail6 on my PC to do the sending through my server.

    Bill Dunn
    www.suncam.com
    The official website of the Federal Trade Commission, protecting America’s consumers for over 100 years.
    Bill Dunn
    SunCam, Inc.
    http://www.SunCam.com
    [email protected]

    Comment


    • oliverands Yes, this is our finding as well. I am combining my forum post (https://www.miva.com/forums/forum/on...gmenting-lists) in with yours, since they are virtually the same post. I believe this is a bug. I have reported it to Miva via a ticket. They also have the link to this thread. I will let you know if I find anything out.
      Holly Nelson, CEO of 2C Development Group
      www.2cdevgroup.com
      @2cdevelopment

      Comment


      • oliverands You might want to import all of your subscribers into MailChimp before you have Miva push customer information. We had to do that, otherwise our customers were flagged as transaction only. Importing them into the list after Miva's connection does not change their subscription status. We had the same problem that you're having... Still having issues with product images, pricing and a few other things, but Miva said via a support ticket that they expect to fix it in the first 9.7 update.

        In the meantime, to fix the subscriber issue create a new list in MailChimp and subscribe your customers via csv import before connecting Miva. Unfortunately, you also have to remove the module in Miva, and install it again to connect to the new list.

        On MailChimp's side you'll want to unsubscribe all of the previous contacts in your old list (if you had any). List > manage contacts > unsubscribe people.

        Comment


        • So a few questions about everyone's general configuration / use case for MailChimp.
          1. Did you create a new list to use with Miva's MailChimp module?
          2. Would you expect customers in you store to Automatically be subscribed to your mailing list?
          3. Would you expect a "customer" for an order be Automatically be subscribed to your mailing list? (I.e. A non-customer places an order, should they be subscribed?)
          I believe in the other bug thread, I mentioned the reason they are marked as "transactional" it is because we imagined people would sync their Miva store up to an existing list that already had subscribers, and any customer's we sent would not override existing subscriber statuses.

          It should also be noted that we added a checkbox you can add to your checkout that when checked will subscribe the current basket's email to your mailing list, with the option of double opt-in.

          Continue to let us know your thoughts on it.

          Thanks
          David Carver
          Miva, Inc. | Software Developer

          Comment


          • 1. Yes
            2. No
            3. No

            I think it works as it should. I do think there should be a statement stating that if you are transitioning, you should add your subscribers to the list before configuring Miva. I didn't realize that I wouldn't be able to update my customer's subscription status in MailChimp after Miva's import. We wouldn't have had an issue if we were previously using MailChimp.

            Comment


            • RTHOMASDESIGN thanks for the clarification. That approach makes sense. But I'm not going to create a new list because then I'll lose years of engagement data on my large list. I really need to keep that as is and have Miva's new integration work with what I have in place already.

              dcarver My responses:

              1. No. I want to use my existing list.
              2. This question regards only when the module is first installed, correct? My belief is that it should be up to the discretion of the store owner whether they go to MailChimp or not and whether they are tagged as transactional only or as mailing list subscribers.
              3. Up to the discretion of the store owner. The store owner should be able to define whether customers (i.e., users who complete a transaction in Miva) automatically are subscribed to the mailing list or if they go up to MailChimp as transactional only. (If they are to be automatically added to the mailing list, the store should have this stated in its privacy policy.) I thought this was what the option in the module configuration allowed for, but it doesn't seem to.

              It should also be noted that we added a checkbox you can add to your checkout that when checked will subscribe the current basket's email to your mailing list, with the option of double opt-in.
              This is OK, but on the admin side the store owner should be able to set whether customers automatically get added to the mailing list--regardless of the existence of a checkbox during checkout. Right now it appears that it's not possible to do this.

              And, for what it's worth, I just received an email from MailChimp saying that single opt-in will become the default, not double opt-in. So I think Miva's integration could solve for the use case of single opt-in when new mailing list subscribers are added:

              Starting October 31, single opt-in will become the default setting for all MailChimp hosted, embedded, and pop-up signup forms. This change will impact all MailChimp users, so here’s everything you need to know:
              • All MailChimp signup forms—including all of your existing forms—will shift from double opt-in to single opt-in. This change will occur automatically; you don’t need to make any manual adjustments within your account.
              • The overall signup process will change: when single opt-in is enabled, the opt-in confirmation emails and the signup thank you page will not be sent or displayed.
              • If you wish to keep your existing forms as double opt-in, you will need to set your preferences here before October 31.
              Todd Gibson
              Oliver + S | Sewing Patterns for Kids and the Whole Family

              Comment


              • dcarver I concur with oliverands in all regards. The installation instructions for the new Mail Chimp module should better explain the ramifications of what will happen if installed in certain ways.

                Also, very much agree with not wanting to have to separate the lists, due to aggregate data.

                How we use our list should be given the broadest leeway, since email marketing is a very focused and particular type of marketing. We need to able to send the types of emails that are most effective to people in different stages of the buying cycle, rather than being forced into one path, as it is now.

                Wondering what the way back is, for those of us who have found the bug? Is there a neat way to undo this, without creating even more problems.

                Also, to note, that we have some segmenting already happening on our list, that passes the Growing Zone of the customer to MailChimp when customers sign up using the MailChimp form. It looks like the customers that get added automatically in the checkout process will not get that data field pushed up, making the segmentation problem even worse, from our stand point.

                Holly Nelson, CEO of 2C Development Group
                www.2cdevgroup.com
                @2cdevelopment

                Comment


                • RTHOMASDESIGN thanks for the clarification. That approach makes sense. But I'm not going to create a new list because then I'll lose years of engagement data on my large list. I really need to keep that as is and have Miva's new integration work with what I have in place already.

                  Originally posted by oliverands View Post
                  dcarver My responses:

                  1. No. I want to use my existing list.
                  2. This question regards only when the module is first installed, correct? My belief is that it should be up to the discretion of the store owner whether they go to MailChimp or not and whether they are tagged as transactional only or as mailing list subscribers.
                  3. Up to the discretion of the store owner. The store owner should be able to define whether customers (i.e., users who complete a transaction in Miva) automatically are subscribed to the mailing list or if they go up to MailChimp as transactional only. (If they are to be automatically added to the mailing list, the store should have this stated in its privacy policy.) I thought this was what the option in the module configuration allowed for, but it doesn't seem to.
                  1. You can use your existing list
                  2. This question is in regards to how you think the Full Sync / Incremental Sync scheduled tasks should work. Customers sent to MailChimp during those task are currently transactional. Feedback noted for your thoughts on it.
                  3. Feedback noted. As far as the module configuration settings, I can see where you may be confused and how it could be interpreted ambiguously. The Subscriber Settings in the MailChimp configuration screen are settings used at runtime and they work as follows:
                    • At runtime when the ORDR action is triggered, if auto opt-in is set OR the g.MailChimp_Subscribe variable is set (i.e. the user at runtime clicked a "Subscribe" or similar checkbox) then the user will be subscribed to the list with a status of either "subscribed" or "pending" depending on the require double opt-in configured setting.
                  Originally posted by oliverands View Post
                  This is OK, but on the admin side the store owner should be able to set whether customers automatically get added to the mailing list--regardless of the existence of a checkbox during checkout. Right now it appears that it's not possible to do this.
                  You are correct that right now it is not possible, I'll look into this.
                  David Carver
                  Miva, Inc. | Software Developer

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by 2CDev View Post
                    [USER="27491"]Also, very much agree with not wanting to have to separate the lists, due to aggregate data.

                    How we use our list should be given the broadest leeway, since email marketing is a very focused and particular type of marketing. We need to able to send the types of emails that are most effective to people in different stages of the buying cycle, rather than being forced into one path, as it is now.

                    Wondering what the way back is, for those of us who have found the bug? Is there a neat way to undo this, without creating even more problems.
                    You can use which ever list you want, but once you chose the list in the initial MailChimp configuration you cannot change it. That is a because MailChimp allows their internal e-commerce stores, which we send all the data to, to only be linked to a single list. You could always uninstall the module and re-run through setup and chose the exact list you want. When the scheduled tasks run to send them updated data, the customers will not be subscribed to your list, but we have noted that store owners would like that option and are looking into that.

                    Originally posted by 2CDev View Post
                    Also, to note, that we have some segmenting already happening on our list, that passes the Growing Zone of the customer to MailChimp when customers sign up using the MailChimp form. It looks like the customers that get added automatically in the checkout process will not get that data field pushed up, making the segmentation problem even worse, from our stand point.
                    Are you using the builtin MailChimp form? If so, are the fields being setup correctly? We send MERGE FIELDS to MailChimp (assuming that is what Growing Zone is). You could open a support ticket and we could take a closer look.
                    David Carver
                    Miva, Inc. | Software Developer

                    Comment


                    • I guess I'm still having a hard time understanding how the module is adding customers to the MailChimp list. Is it the case, by design, that under ALL circumstances, any contact that Miva adds to the MailChimp list is added as eligible for transactional emails only? Or is there a bug here?

                      At runtime when the ORDR action is triggered, if auto opt-in is set OR the g.MailChimp_Subscribe variable is set (i.e. the user at runtime clicked a "Subscribe" or similar checkbox) then the user will be subscribed to the list with a status of either "subscribed" or "pending" depending on the require double opt-in configured setting.
                      From what I've seen whether or not auto opt-in is checked, the customer gets added to the list as eligible for transactional email only. That happens, I believe, as a result of Miva passing the transaction to MailChimp. I have not tested the checkbox on my site. Has someone tried that, and do customers get added as full list subscribers?

                      Here's how I think the module should work. If the auto opt-in is NOT selected in the admin, a user who makes a purchase gets added to the MailChimp list as eligible for transactional emails only. (This is required, I believe, to pass the transaction data to MailChimp.) If auto opt-in IS selected in the admin, a user who makes a purchase gets added to the MailChimp list as a full subscriber.

                      And I am wondering, along with 2CDev how we can walk back changes that the module has made to the MailChimp list. Right now I have contacts in the list who should be full members of the list but what are flagged as eligible for transactional email only. I don't seem to be able to find a way to change their status.

                      I've disabled the module in my store for the time being.
                      Todd Gibson
                      Oliver + S | Sewing Patterns for Kids and the Whole Family

                      Comment


                      • Let me try and add some clarity to how this works.

                        There are two separate things here:

                        1. Historical Data Sync of Orders/Customers - This imports all your previous customer/orders into MailChimp and sets a flag so they are transnational only. This data is primarily used in MailChimp so that you can segment your list based on this data and things like automations/product recommendations.

                        2. When new customers buy from you (after the module is installed), the module uses the settings you have configured in the admin. If you have automatically Opt-in All customers, any new customer who purchases from you will automatically be added to your list as a full subscriber. If not, only the eCommerce data gets pushed to MailChimp (and I think they become transnational only)

                        That being said, I don't think we considered the fact that the historical data sync would change a existing customer from a full subscriber to transnational only. That was not our intention. I would think that re-importing your subscriber list would change the transnational back to subscriber. You said you tried that and it didn't work?

                        It sounds like we may need some settings related to the historical data import to let you determine how that subscriber data is imported.

                        Brennan Heyde
                        VP Developer Relations
                        Miva, Inc.
                        [email protected]
                        https://www.miva.com

                        Comment


                        • Thanks for the clarification, Brennan.

                          2. When new customers buy from you (after the module is installed), the module uses the settings you have configured in the admin. If you have automatically Opt-in All customers, any new customer who purchases from you will automatically be added to your list as a full subscriber. If not, only the eCommerce data gets pushed to MailChimp (and I think they become transnational only)
                          This is how I would like it to work, but there's currently a bug here that I've just been able to test and reproduce.

                          Even if the setting is configured to opt-in all customers, the customer still gets added as eligible for transactional emails only and cannot be updated to receive mailings from the list or unsubscribed to the list.

                          I'll attach screenshots of the MailChimp module settings I have configured in my store, and the resulting record in MailChimp after I placed a test order. You can see that this customer isn't opted into the mailing list but is added as transactional only. When I tried to remove the email address from my MailChimp list, MailChimp would not let me because the email address is not subscribed. It's transactional only.

                          MailChimpSettings.JPGMailChimpRecord.JPG
                          Attached Files
                          Todd Gibson
                          Oliver + S | Sewing Patterns for Kids and the Whole Family

                          Comment


                          • This issue has been resolved, thanks to some digging by Miva's support team. In my MailChimp account set up, I had set the First Name field to be required so that whenever anyone used a popup form on my site, they would have to provide their first name to be able to subscribe to my list. It turns out there was an issue with that setting and that what was causing new customers to be added as transactional only. I have turned off the option to make that field required now, and new customers get added to my list correctly.
                            Todd Gibson
                            Oliver + S | Sewing Patterns for Kids and the Whole Family

                            Comment


                            • Hey Todd,

                              Trying to switch over a clients site (never worked with MailChimp). What changes do you have to make, if any, to popup signup forms? They appear to connect directly with Mailchimp, so thinking none?
                              Bruce Golub
                              Phosphor Media - "Your Success is our Business"

                              Improve Your Customer Service | Get MORE Customers | Edit CSS/Javascript/HTML Easily | Make Your Site Faster | Get Indexed by Google | Free Modules | Follow Us on Facebook
                              phosphormedia.com

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